Curse

GoodApollo1234 · Aug 23, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Hi, I wasn't sure where to put this thread, so I put it here. Sorry if I was wrong

Anyway.... Last night, my brother (who is primarily a PvP-er) and I were fighting from ToA to Sanctum Cay in HM for Sh*ts and giggles, and I noticed that whenever we aggro'd a mob, his monk heroes would run right in and start wanding the enemies. I told him he should probably set them to "avoid," but he said he had them set like that so they'd interrupt enemy spells with [Power Drain] as a means of energy management.

Personally, I thought this was kind of a dumb idea. It was by no means a deal breaker in that particular situation, but I'm still skeptical as to how it would work in more advanced areas.

I've always kept my healers (whether they be monks, or N/Rt's) on "avoid," and I've never had much trouble with energy management.

So, my question is: Am I the crazy one? Would you recommend doing this?

Pleikki · Aug 23, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

hmm i keep em on Guard and works fine.

-Lotus- · Aug 23, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

set them to avoid if they have no offensive skills.
set them do defense if the have offensive energy management. (like SOLS or Pdrain)

TheodenKing · Aug 23, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

What he's doing is unnecessary in pve, but yes, it works. Heroes and henchmen are very good at employing interupts. But there are better energy management choices for a monk that don't involve running in with a bullseye on his forehead.

zwei2stein · Aug 23, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodApollo1234

So, my question is: Am I the crazy one? Would you recommend doing this?

Yes.

- There is nothing wrong with monk hero being set to "defend mode". It won't cause him to be any worse healer. And wanding damage is l33t because it is free. Even if your monk heroes don't use skills on enemy, it is recomended.

- Inspiration interupts are good too. If you interrupt damage skill of foe it is directly equal to healing all damage is would cause. And you are gaining energy by doing so and noones healths drops so it is safer if there are multiple damage sources. If defensive skill is interupted it means that foes is going to die faster which means that it has less time to cause damage monk would have to deal with. Problem is that there are usually better skills to put to those slots as someone else in party can usually be much better at interrupting.

de klootviool · Aug 23, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

wanding damage leet since when lol

GoodApollo1234 · Aug 23, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

wanding damage is l33t because it is free.

Um... I don't see how wanding damage could possibly l33t, but whatever you say. I guess a whopping 15-or-so damage couldn't hurt, but it still runs the risk of over-aggro, which we all know Anet's AI loves to do.

I'm aware that heroes in general are very good at interrupting, but I always thought that job should be given to a profession that's actually MEANT to interrupt, like a mesmer or a ranger. And frankly, doing it for energy management just seems moronic to me since, like Theodenking said, there are much better choices.

Regardless, I appreciate all the feedback. I still think I prefer playing with passive monks, but I'll try to be a bit more open-minded next time.

Marverick · Aug 23, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Yes.

- There is nothing wrong with monk hero being set to "defend mode". It won't cause him to be any worse healer. And wanding damage is l33t because it is free. Even if your monk heroes don't use skills on enemy, it is recomended.

- Inspiration interupts are good too. If you interrupt damage skill of foe it is directly equal to healing all damage is would cause. And you are gaining energy by doing so and noones healths drops so it is safer if there are multiple damage sources. If defensive skill is interupted it means that foes is going to die faster which means that it has less time to cause damage monk would have to deal with. Problem is that there are usually better skills to put to those slots as someone else in party can usually be much better at interrupting.

Nope.

Heroes will wait until they finish their current attack before they use any skills.

zelgadissan · Aug 23, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

The Inspiration line can make good e-management for a monk - see [Power Drain], [Waste Not Want Not], etc. - but not near as good as the old standby [Glyph of Lesser Energy], which can be used easily on both guard and avoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

There is nothing wrong with monk hero being set to "defend mode". It won't cause him to be any worse healer. And wanding damage is l33t because it is free. Even if your monk heroes don't use skills on enemy, it is recomended.

I highly disagree, for the reason Marverick just stated. A hero isn't smart enough to say "oh shi- better cancel the attack and use WoH". He'll attack, then heal/prot, at which point it's interrupted because the guy just died.

zwei2stein · Aug 23, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

I highly disagree, for the reason Marverick just stated. A hero isn't smart enough to say "oh shi- better cancel the attack and use WoH". He'll attack, then heal/prot, at which point it's interrupted because the guy just died.

Since hero ai lives on server time it is pretty unnoticeable and not really that different from human monk reaction times. In fact, its helps with overhealing (hero ai has tendency to sync cast. This throws them off sync.). When stuff goes apeshit they do not wand anymore anyway.

I would submit to you thou that if your party members can die within 2 seconds without forewarning, something else than monk setup is wrong.

Meh, guess this is thing better left for humans to do properly.

Ratson Itamar · Aug 23, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

If you're using the standard Sabway's N/Rt which has life-stealing skill/s then set him/her to guard quickly. The hero won't use those spells when set on Avoid, thus wasting the hero's elite skill and possibly another skill on her/his bar. But if you are using any other healer build which doesn't have any life-stealing or other utility skills that target the enemy, then you may actually want to set them on Avoid and not on Guard. That's, again, only if you're in HM or in any another high-end area, otherwise set them to guard so they'll help your damage output (15*2 each ~2 seconds is very much welcomed).

This damage may also help you further, if your monks has a fire damage wand/staff then you can activate Mark of Rodgort the entire battle, constant burning is a nice extra to have. Or if you're in an area of Undeads or Abbadon's Servants and your monks use an Holy type wand/staff you can do some nice damage 30*2 each~2 seconds (or 30 damage per ~1 second). Take advantage of your surroundings and your team. Don't neglect a single thing that may seems unimportant at first glance.

- Why would you choose not to use free damage that can add up at the right hands?

GoodApollo1234 · Aug 23, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

If you're using the standard Sabway's N/Rt which has life-stealing skill/s then set him/her to guard quickly. The hero won't use those spells when set on Avoid, thus wasting the hero's elite skill and possibly another skill on her/his bar.

......

- Why would you choose not to use free damage that can add up at the right hands?

A) You're partly right. I've been keeping an eye on my N/Rt healer, and he doesn't tend to use Signet of Lost Souls when set on avoid. HOWEVER, he does use his elite, Weapon of Remedy, just fine as far as I know. The problem is actually with skills that directly target foes. It has nothing to do with life-stealing.

B) It's already been explained why wand-damage is more trouble than it's worth. Heroes aren't smart enough to cancel attacks when necessary.

DarkSpirit · Aug 23, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

If you want to use interrupts then you have to set the monk hero to guard. If you set him on guard, he will wand or normal attack the enemies. This means you have to limit yourself to ranged weapons for him. Otherwise if he is wielding a caster sword like Rajazan's Fervor he would run to the front lines to melee like Koss.

The other problem is, if he is set to guard, he doesn't kite from melee attackers as fast as when he is set to passive, especially if he is happily wanding his enemies with full health until that single hit from HM which would cost him about 150hp.

If he is on passive, all he does is concentrate on his allies and kite from melee attackers instead of wasting his time normal attacking.

Marverick · Aug 23, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

You can just equip him with an offhand and no weapon while he is set on guard. That'll solve the wanding problem.

Ratson Itamar · Aug 23, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Oh, you have the "old" elite, your hero might only use it to remove a condition. If I remember right my hero doesn't use Xinrae's Weapon and Vengeful Weapon (I can't check it so see if that's true right now).

GoodApollo1234 · Aug 23, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

The other problem is, if he is set to guard, he doesn't kite from melee attackers as fast as when he is set to passive, especially if he is happily wanding his enemies with full health until that single hit from HM which would cost him about 150hp.

Very good point. Didn't think of that.

ALF71BE · Aug 23, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

In addition to what has being said, having Inspiration e-management interrupts means that your heroes monks bars will be either limited to Protting or Healing, and these kind of bars aren't that good.

And in another note, wether you have those skills in their bars or not, they'll run out of energy sooner or later, because heroes suck at energy management, so playing gimmicks is best when using heroes to do the healing/protting, gimmicks that of course won't run out of energy.

-Lotus- · Aug 24, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

In addition to what has being said, having Inspiration e-management interrupts means that your heroes monks bars will be either limited to Protting or Healing, and these kind of bars aren't that good.

what are you talking about. you can do a 4 attribute spread with a monk. you dont need a decent rank in divine favor or inspiration, and you dont need to max our heal or prot.

DarkSpirit · Aug 24, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

You can just equip him with an offhand and no weapon while he is set on guard. That'll solve the wanding problem.

That is still not optimal because you lose the bonuses from a weapon.

The point is, if you can, dont give interrupts or attack skills to your healer. If you really can't then too bad, and live with it.

JDRyder · Aug 24, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

its a good idea imo, i use it a lot myself on both my bar and hero's "heros own with it"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

In addition to what has being said, having Inspiration e-management interrupts means that your heroes monks bars will be either limited to Protting or Healing, and these kind of bars aren't that good.

no

if you run the same att set up as a TA or RA monk it comes out to be
11+1+1 healing
9+1 Prot
8+1 DF
8 insp

taking 1 point out of DF and healing is not going to hurt u at all

if your bro pvps a lot hes going to know what hes doing, even if hes in a low ranking guild. Pvpers are better at the game generally, almost every pvper ive met knows a lot more about all the skills and how they are used than a average pve'er.